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 2010 Cooper S Timing Chain Failure Inquiry

 Created by: bwilson7990
Orig. Posting Date User Name Edit Date
Jan 7, 2020 04:23AM kenatminimania Edited: Jan 7, 2020 04:34AM 
Jan 6, 2020 11:21AM bwilson7990 Edited: Jan 6, 2020 11:27AM 
Jan 6, 2020 05:45AM kenatminimania  
Jan 5, 2020 09:50PM bwilson7990 Edited: Jan 5, 2020 09:55PM 
Jan 5, 2020 12:20PM JEFF10049  
Nov 25, 2019 04:57AM kenatminimania  
Nov 21, 2019 08:15PM bwilson7990  
Nov 20, 2019 08:38AM kenatminimania Edited: Nov 20, 2019 08:40AM 
Nov 19, 2019 09:07PM bwilson7990 Edited: Nov 19, 2019 09:15PM 
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 Posted: Jan 7, 2020 04:23AM
 Edited:  Jan 7, 2020 04:34AM
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R56 COOPER S HATCHBACK


11 21 Crankshaft and Bearings

Tightening Torques

  Type Thread Tightening specifications Torque
1AZ Torsion damper (hub) to crankshaft
N14 M14 x1.5 x74

Replace screws

Lightly oil screws and threads

 
      Jointing torque 50 Nm
    Central bolt 12.9 Angle of rotation 180 °

As for the VANOS noise, it is not something we have come across so we are unable to comment....

 Posted: Jan 6, 2020 11:21AM
 Edited:  Jan 6, 2020 11:27AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenatminimania
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwilson7990
I am mid-cross on this bridge right now... and have some further questions. Haynes manual says 50nm + 180 degrees. With a 4ft breaker bar I was able to get 130 degrees out of it after the 50nm with a friend using a crankshaft holding tool. Should I squeeze the additional 30 degrees out of it with a pipe on my breaker bar to be sure?
I presume you are talking about the vibration damper to the crank. The instructions states:

Replace screws.

Lightly oil screws and threads.


Did you oil the threads?
No sir. Haven't even gotten that far yet. I am talking about the "Crankshaft sprocket hub bolt" as it is called in the Haynes manual. The bolt that goes through the front hub and threads into the crankshaft which seats the timing and oil sprockets; and which the vibration damper is bolted to. Manual does not instruct to oil this bolt and of the many videos online I have seen, I have not seen it oiled before installation.

I'm worried if it's not tight enough, timing sprocket will slip and i'll be back where I started. I did 50nm + 130 degrees and the amount of force to tighten it seemed excessive so I stopped. But the manual calls for 180 degrees so trying to decide if I should muscle it for 50 more degrees or not...

Regardless, I am most concerned about the noise I hear when rotating the engine manually which you can hear in the video I linked on my last post.

 Posted: Jan 6, 2020 05:45AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwilson7990
I am mid-cross on this bridge right now... and have some further questions. Haynes manual says 50nm + 180 degrees. With a 4ft breaker bar I was able to get 130 degrees out of it after the 50nm with a friend using a crankshaft holding tool. Should I squeeze the additional 30 degrees out of it with a pipe on my breaker bar to be sure?
I presume you are talking about the vibration damper to the crank. The instructions states:

Replace screws.

Lightly oil screws and threads.


Did you oil the threads?

 Posted: Jan 5, 2020 09:50PM
 Edited:  Jan 5, 2020 09:55PM
Total posts: 4
Last post: Jan 6, 2020
Member since:Nov 19, 2019
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I am mid-cross on this bridge right now... and have some further questions. Haynes manual says 50nm + 180 degrees. With a 4ft breaker bar I was able to get 130 degrees out of it after the 50nm with a friend using a crankshaft holding tool. Should I squeeze the additional 30 degrees out of it with a pipe on my breaker bar to be sure?

I just reassembled the engine with all new valves and seals done by machine shop, new head bolts, new main bearings (including thrush washers), new front and rear seals, new timing kit, new oil pump crank sprocket and chain, new exhaust cam bolt and sprocket.

Intake cam VANOS unit was already assembled and appeared undamaged so it was never removed from the cam and was reinstalled as-is. Cams were checked and cleared by machine shop. 

When rotating the engine manually by the crank bolt, I hear a noise that's half-way between a click and a knock on the intake cam. Highly suspecting the VANOS unit (as no oil pressure). When engine is rotated manually by the VANOS cam bolt, no noise. Also- rotated the engine with a 375rpm old school electric drill by the crankshaft bolt and it sounded perfect. Followed the installation procedure of the Haynes manual to a T but wondering if the VANOS unit could be bad or if this might be expected. Complete long shot as it's nearly impossible for someone who isn't present or experienced it before to know or understand but figured I'd throw it out there.

ALSO- this noise appears to be when one of the sets of lobes is making contact with their rockers at the valve fully open position.

Here is a video of the noise. If you watch closely you can see the cam sort of "snap" forward at the moment of the noise -> https://youtu.be/SXCcXrUbUxw

Remember this is only present when spinning the engine manually from the crank bolt. When spun from the VANOS bolt, and when spun with 375rpm electric drill, no noise.

 Posted: Jan 5, 2020 12:20PM
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US
The vacuum pump failed first a known problem. Be sure and get the most recent torque specs the crank bolt torque angle was misprinted in the manual.

 Posted: Nov 25, 2019 04:57AM
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Thanks for the update. Hope for the best!

 Posted: Nov 21, 2019 08:15PM
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Are you able to see the pictures I posted? The chain broke big time and got tangled with the oil pump chain as well and broke it too. The weirdest part is that the vacuum pump was also destroyed which makes no sense to me. Despite it's lacking size/strength in comparison to the rest of the engine I'm wondering if it failed first, slowing down the exhaust cam and causing a chain reaction.. literally. 

Regardless, all of the damage was done by the broken chain. After cleaning, I think everything looks cosmetic and completely salvageable. The oil pan and lower engine block was all removed tonight and the main bearings look amazing. There is no scarring and barely even any visible wear on the bearings. I am going to go ahead and replace all main bearings while I'm in this deep and will also replace the oil pump as there was just too much debris around it and I feel like its the safest option. I plan to fully clean the engine from the bottom side and clean out any oiling channels accessible. 

I was able to get the timing bolt that sheared off out of the end of the exhaust cam with ease. Less than 5 mins. It was loose and I was able to lightly tap it with a punch and turn it out with a flathead. 

I am taking both cams and the lower block to a local machine shop for a blessing or a rejection. I'll post updates when I know more. 

Thanks so much for your input!

 Posted: Nov 20, 2019 08:38AM
 Edited:  Nov 20, 2019 08:40AM
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Was there a physical break in the chain?  Did the chain break first causing the rest of the damage, or did the cam sprocket bolt fail which caused everything else to fail? or did a chain guide or tensioner fail causing everything else to fail?

A thorough cleaning of the bare block may suffice to resurrect the engine, but I would check all the bearings for microscopic debris damage....

Check for bent valves....

Usually, the most cost effective repair is to get a slightly used engine and do a swap - but you never truly know the condition of said engine. 

If you plan to keep the car a while, then a rebuild makes sense especially on a 54k mile car.

Let us know what you decide - and update your progress if you don't mind.

 Posted: Nov 19, 2019 09:07PM
 Edited:  Nov 19, 2019 09:15PM
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Greetings Mini lovers, 

Very noob-ish Mini owner here but avid car lover and versed mechanic. I have acquired a R56 2010 Mini Cooper S w/ 54k on its N14 1.6L Turbski and she has a failed timing chain. (shocker) The car was purchased from a friend, originally in hopes of a repair and flip, but I have since really taken a liking to the car and am highly considering keeping it. So I am thinking longevity and fixing it right rather than quick.

Pulled the motor, removed the head. Timing chain was in pieces, exhaust cam timing sprocket broke off leaving bolt sheared off inside the end of the cam. Oil pump chain and vacuum pump were victims as well. Both cams look good visually. Exhaust cam will need broken stud removed but that's no big deal. Vacuum pump "keyed" side of exhaust cam appeared unharmed visually. One valve is cracked, will likely have all valves replaced by machine shop and entire head hot-tanked while I'm at it. Pistons were dirty (typical of DIT engine) but look unharmed.

Previous owner LOVED this car and took very good care of it. Interior is mint. They told me it just went boom coming down off-ramp from highway. Prior to it was perfect, had no issues.

Now the inquiry. When the chains broke free, they beat up the inside of the timing tunnel including the areas under the crank and around the dipstick entrance to the oil pan. To me, it looks cosmetic. I think with a good cleaning and maybe some dremel work it will be fine but that's why I am here. This is of course barring no further damage to engine by shrapnel circulating in the oil which is another thing I need to investigate further. However, with the sudden failure I am optimistic thats unlikely to be the case.

Do we think this is impactful to the integrity of the upper oil pan? Would it be a sin to clean it up and reassemble with necessary replacement parts?







Brad