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 Posted: Sep 12, 2018 03:14AM
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The bearings I used were very soft. They were destroyed in a very short time. I did all the measuring and had them well within spec. When I took the carcass out it collapsed easily. The first set I had in there were so hard I had to use a slide hammer type bearing remover. Even then they were very stubborn.

The new straight cut drop gears are GREAT! The bearing in the idler is the size of a trans bearing. The sound is quite cool if you ask me. Only problem is if any other bearings go bad I won't be able to detect it over the whine!

Cool pic Hunter. Looks like a blast (when it works)

Mark Looman, Ada Michigan 1967 Austin Cooper S
 Posted: Sep 11, 2018 03:10PM
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CA
Happy for you Mark...my unhappiness arrived on Day 4 of the ALCAN 5000 Rally at Mile 836 of the Alaska Highway in the Yukon.  I put the Mini on the sweep trailer but have not had a chance to do an 'autopsy' yet...but suspect idler gear bearing failure.

My power unit a pre A+, 4 synchro, Puddin Stirrer transmission under a +100 thou 1098 build after Graham Russell.

So much care & attention to specs, clearances etc....and all new bearings throughout the build.

I don't know the source of the bearings in question but was warned last night by a Mini mechanic to look to see if KR appears anywhere on the races.  Many bearings from South Korea are suspect.  I will be looking.  I will report.

I can say the Maniflow Cooper Freeflow exhaust was super easy to install & sounded great!

PHOTO:  ROO on 11% TSD west of Quesnel, B.C. with fabbed bumper, LED light bar, screened lights/grill/vallance, aux. rad., oil cooler, sump guard, road/rally cones, HD adj. suspension, GAZ adj. dampers, Yokie 539s on 5"x12" wheels, 8.4 disc brakes

 Posted: Jul 30, 2018 04:41PM
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Swiftune straightcut drop gear set installed. I LOVE IT. Yes there is a whine but it's not outrageous. Knowing I'll never mess with those tiny idle gear bearings again it worth it.

Thank you to all that helped me come to this silver bullet solution.

Mark Looman, Ada Michigan 1967 Austin Cooper S
 Posted: Jun 28, 2018 07:38AM
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US
Send me a pic. I have some part kits with and without the gear. Steve (CTR) 

 Posted: Jun 28, 2018 05:25AM
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US
While reading this discussion and ideas I learned something  too!

 I was given a box or two of random transmission bits... (mostly 4 Synchro Remote)parts of all sorts.
   Within those parts - was a Shaft + bearings = all tightly packaged.. I had no clue.

 1000% Certain it is the Shaft + alignment pieces for the Roller bearing idler linked above.  ( Circled in Red to the Pic)
 

I KNOW i wont be using this = and DO NOT have the actual Idler gear with Bearing.. But only have the 'Shaft assembly"

If Anyone wants this part= let me know = Available for 'cost of shipping"  6-10$

 Posted: Jun 21, 2018 03:22PM
 Edited:  Jun 21, 2018 03:49PM
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What is your hot idle oil pressure, and what oil do you use?

meanwhile, words of wisdom here...https://www.calverst.com/technical-info/idler-gear-setting-end-float/

 Posted: Jun 21, 2018 07:58AM
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GB

If you changed the transfer housing, did you also change the nose bearing on the first motion shaft and the match ground outer ring in the new transfer cover ?

If not, that could well be breaking up.

What symptoms are there that lead you to think it's all going Pete Tong again anyway ?

 Posted: Jun 20, 2018 10:13PM
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Meh, don't let him get to you. He's got his way of doing things and just let him be.

Sounds like you did it all right. Is there a chance there is a mismatch between the first motion shaft bearing and race so the input gear is not fully supported?

And Alex is right-- the drop gears do make more noise than just a straight cut box. And it is indeed a lot of money to use timken style drop gears-- you should ride in someone's car who has SC drop gears before shelling out the $.

I would also advise you AGAINST trying the torrington style bearings-- there must be something else at play and there were thousands and thousands of minis built without using those torrington style bearings on the idler thrusts.

Post a link to your old thread or just wait until you've got your box out and you can have a look see at what the latest problem is-- might not be what you think it is.

 Posted: Jun 20, 2018 06:46PM
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Steve:

I had replaced the idler gear, the idler gear bearings, the thrust washers and the clutch cover. I also replaced the primary gear. All of which appeared to be in great if not perfect condition. The only part that was in question was the transmission case. I assembled the parts without the block in place and torqued the cover. I did a reading with two sets of feeler gauges and got tolerances that were both equal and within spec. I then disassembled the parts and reassembled them with the engine in place.

Because I didn't post more information (after being put in my place by mostly you) doesn't mean I am not doing the best I can with what I have infront of me. Though I agree the setup should be holding up longer than it has, I am perplexed. It's still not removed from the car so I can't make an assessment to what happened. Aside from this post I have contacted two very skilled and experienced mini builders/mechanics for 'not public' conversation.

You come highly recommended by both of these people, but I don't appreciate your public smearing of me or my ability.

Mark Looman, Ada Michigan 1967 Austin Cooper S
 Posted: Jun 20, 2018 04:47AM
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US
When this issue first appeared I was contacted about the problem. It was quite awhile ago now and I don't recall everything. What I do recall and this may not be so, he decided not to correctly repair but throw another patch on it. Seems being in a parade or something was more important that a good repair. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Jun 20, 2018 03:36AM
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Sidebar:  Curious thing I wanted to ask about.  For the last couple of threads where Mark has posted... I do NOT see any posts AFTER his.  That is... I don't see them until I hit "Reply" and all the other messages appear as history.  Until this morning I didn't realize that two people had already posted to Mark's thread before me.  Has anybody else seen this happen?  At work I am seeing this happen with Chrome running on Win7 64 bit.  

Doug L.
 Posted: Jun 20, 2018 12:25AM
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GB
The howl of the straight cut drops in Liams Mini was audible over the crowd on top of the pits at Goodwood in '09 as we drove past the start finish line.
An SC box is one thing, and I run one on the road, but the drops are far worse as they are not submerged in oil and don't quieten down in fourth.  It's obviously personal choice, but it's a LOT of money to then decide you can't stick it...

 Posted: Jun 19, 2018 10:30PM
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I compare it to a supercharger whine. If you have a performance exhaust (headers, RC40) and a K&N filter, you won't be upset by the whine of the gears, in my opinion.

I drove a complete SC gearbox w/ SC drop gears and with that timken bearing idler drop gear for years and the noise was a non-issue. People would ask if I had a bad transmission once in a while, but that's the only time I ever really was compelled to acknowledge it.

I'm surprised to learn that you've had repeated problems with the thrust washers on your idler, though. If the case is not matched/machined to the flywheel housing and if your idler thrusts are not shimmed properly, those issues can certainly magnify wear. But I would think whoever addressed the issue after it happened the first time fixed whatever caused the original problem.

There's an engine builder here in SoCal who showed me the great lengths he goes through to realign and re-dowel every transmission and flywheel housing he touches and his attention to the detail is astounding. He made some custom tools to facilitate the realignment. I guess I've just been really fortunate to either always have matched housings and boxes that I've put together, or just dumb luck.

 Posted: Jun 19, 2018 06:27PM
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I was shown the torrington name at a shop, didn't realize it was a brand not a style. I stand corrected.

I found the swiftune drop gear set. I have an email into them with a barrage of questions. It sure seems like a silver bullet to the achilles heal of the mini. Curious just how loud they are?

Mark Looman, Ada Michigan 1967 Austin Cooper S
 Posted: Jun 19, 2018 09:25AM
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GB
Difficult thing is with the linked idler, is that it's straight cut and noisy as hell - it's not a road device.

 Posted: Jun 19, 2018 09:12AM
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 Posted: Jun 19, 2018 03:35AM
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US
Mark, Torington is a bearing brand name, not a type.  Needle thrust bearings like you are showing are available from several manufacturers.  They require a source of lubrication.  While grease may be OK, a continuous supply of clean, filtered oil is better.

More info than you want in the link below...
https://www.snoy.fi/images/esitteet/Koyo_tuotekuvasto.pdf

Doug L.
 Posted: Jun 19, 2018 12:15AM
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GB

Swiftune & MED amongst others make that kind of idler gear.

If you're having another failure, and this is at least the second that I can remember, you really must start to ask WHY it is happening.

You're either doing something wrong, there is a mismatch of components, or there is something damaged and overlooked.

After the last one, am I right in thinking you didn't replace the gearbox casing or the cover ?

 Posted: Jun 18, 2018 06:33PM
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A popular mod years (decades?) ago used to be to replace the idler bearing with a modified form that had the normal idler shaft replaced by an "axle" mounted solidly in the casing/gearbox and a bearing fitted to the centre of a modified idler gear...

Unfortunately they went out of production about 20+ years ago.  If anyone knows whether there are alternatives I'd also like to hear about them.

Although, if set up properly, the standard setup will last a long time in a road car.  If your idler bearing rattles at idle with the clutch out then its not set up properly.

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Jun 18, 2018 06:00PM
 Edited:  Jun 18, 2018 06:01PM
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Has anyone here heard of Torrington Bearings? Can they be used to replace the thrust washers on the drop/idle gear? I'm experiencing ANOTHER failure. Can the hole be bored out to accept larger, more longer lasting bearings? Can the torrington style bearings be used to ensure there is NO wear on the aluminum housing?

URL: [img]http://bradanderson.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/60MM-CAM-THRUST-BEARING-SHIMS-FULL.jpg[/img]

Mark Looman, Ada Michigan 1967 Austin Cooper S