HELP ! Rough running engine.
Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
Apr 11, 2018 04:28AM | Dan Moffet | |
Apr 5, 2018 09:16AM | Derwood | |
Apr 5, 2018 08:19AM | Alex | |
Apr 4, 2018 08:37PM | Derwood | |
Apr 4, 2018 04:24PM | Minimike1 | |
Apr 4, 2018 01:24PM | Derwood | |
Apr 4, 2018 12:23PM | Dan Moffet | Edited: Apr 5, 2018 05:47AM |
Apr 4, 2018 11:00AM | mur | |
Apr 4, 2018 10:45AM | malsal | |
Apr 4, 2018 09:35AM | Dan Moffet | |
Apr 4, 2018 08:27AM | Spitz | |
Apr 4, 2018 08:13AM | Dan Moffet | |
Apr 4, 2018 07:49AM | Dan Moffet | |
Apr 4, 2018 07:29AM | Derwood | |
Apr 4, 2018 07:10AM | Dan Moffet | |
Apr 4, 2018 06:58AM | malsal | |
Apr 4, 2018 06:49AM | mur | |
Apr 4, 2018 06:39AM | Dan Moffet | Edited: Apr 4, 2018 12:20PM |
Apr 4, 2018 06:39AM | Derwood | |
Apr 4, 2018 06:37AM | thewerewolf |
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Derwood, have you cleaned the pugs, warmed the car up and taken it for a proper drive of >20 miles or so ?If not, and you've used the choke to start the engine, you plugs WILL be sooty...
The waxstat jet is a service item (24/36 months in daily use) and usually fails fully rich. If you've done your basic checks & base setup and it's still running badly once fully warmed up, change this before messing about with needles which take tens of thousands of miles to wear a flat spot on the side. The difference between an ADE and AAC isn't worth worrying about away from an emissions control environment but a worn and failed jet will trow your sideways off track.
Dan, your carbs are incorrectly adjusted - the fast idle screw should be virtually touching the fast idle cam. Just because it came off your car like that doesn't mean it's correct.
Mike, Setting the jet level is PPA (**** poor advice). Flush with the bridge is a starting point before lowering the jet two complete turns of the screw on an HIF or 12 flats (two complete turns) of the big nut on an HS series carb. Some suggest 15 flats as a start point, but I've found that depends on how rich you want to run your engine - 12 is better.
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the argument.
Move on. and let's hear what's working in terms of fixes.
BTW, sooty plugs is too much fuel.
That's where I'd start.
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The first 1/4 in (6mm) approximately of movement (A) opens the throttle slightly without affecting the mixture giving a fast engine idling speed.
It must be nice to have a Mini with a handbook!
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"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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The first 1/4 in (6mm) approximately of movement (A) opens the throttle slightly without affecting the mixture giving a fast engine idling speed.
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As i said before the Jap spec cars may have used a different needle the Haynes book is only a guide you should have checked what needle you have first you may have wasted money on 2 needles. Normally the jet will wear prior to the needle wearing out.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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Perhaps the carb you're looking at Dan has the cam rotated incorrectly?
First pull of choke lever rotates the cam to increase idle without dropping the jet on an HS. Pulling more drops the jet increasing fuel delivery
I can see where it could be adjusted either way - if the fast idle screw was set to contact the cam at its very tip (which on mine isn't the case) it could increase idle speed minutely before shifting the jet. As mine is set (coming off the car) and the screw set to engage the cam in from its end, the jet would begin to shift first.
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Perhaps the carb you're looking at Dan has the cam rotated incorrectly?
First pull of choke lever rotates the cam to increase idle without dropping the jet on an HS. Pulling more drops the jet increasing fuel delivery
A long shot here Derwood but simple to check.
In the past I had a classic MINI that wouldn't run worth shyte after installing an engine. Chased gremlins like you are.
Finally discovered I had left off the grounding strap!
If it's not there or loose, or not grounding well, the car will run like crap, and your choke and throttle cables will be pretty hot.
probably over on right side of engine, clutch area
"Everybody should own a MINI at some point, or you are incomplete as a human being" - James May
"WET COOPER", Partsguy1 (Terry Snell of Penticton BC ) - Could you send the money for the unpaid parts and court fees.
Ordered so by a Judge
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Dan, thank you for explaining where to start the jet adjustment. I do know from my Haynes manual that mur is correct. The first position ( detente ) on the choke pull only increases idle, not richness.
Please give page number section number (e.g. 4A.9 Section 11) and which paragraphs you are reading. Thanks.
Neither my choke cable or any of the 3 carbs I possess have any positions or "detent" but all have smooth, continuous movement.
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The choke increases the idle speed first and then lowers the jet to enrich the mixture.
Now, I have a HIF 44 in hand. It does not pull a jet but opens an enriching channel to introduce extra fuel. The choke lever on this carb rotates about 20 degrees before the cam comes in contact with the fast idle screw. This cam does have the indicator arrow about 1 screw diameter up from the beginning of the cam. Total rotation of the lever is about 90 degrees.
The principle should be the same - full choke (or nearly) to increase mixture for cold weather operation, for which increased throttle opening (not just faster idle speed) is required. As the engine warms, the mixture and consequently increased throttle may be reduced. At its lowest setting, when fast idle is not necessary but slight enrichment is useful, the choke mechanism allows the driver to feather the mixture. If you were to look at a different type of carb that has a choke butterfly and fixed jets, you would see that the choke butterfly restricts air supply, forcing the carb to suck harder on the fuel. A similar linkage would allow the choke mechanism to increase throttle position in the same way.
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Bill, the way you use large print is to try to embarrass people. Please stop it. Regardless of how much oil you put into the ground, it was a very stupid thing to do. So you talk down to people but you are far from perfect. If you haven’t got anything that applies to my questions, please don’t comment. If you really want to help people, do it politely. Period.BTW- “ WRONG again “ implies that I am always wrong. Well, you are the one who is wrong.
Dan, thank you for explaining where to start the jet adjustment. I do know from my Haynes manual that mur is correct. The first position ( detente ) on the choke pull only increases idle, not richness. Also, b c started the pi$$ing match. He provoked me and I responded. That won’t change. When I am provoked, I respond - even if it tries your patience.
Malsal, I am buying both a compression tester and timing light today. Those two items will be checked before I touch the carb. Regarding the gearbox, it’s like any kind of troubleshooting...you start by testing relavent ideas, then start eliminating possibilities. That’s what I did with the transmission, and now it is fixed. As far as finding the needle I need, there are two possible ones, because ‘89 was a changeover year, and the two types of needles comes from page 4A*2 of the Haynes manual. You can look and see that it is either an AAC or an ADE. I ordered both. You may think ordering two is a waste of time and money, but I don’t want to receive the wrong one ( 50-50 chance ) and then have to wait anouther week for the correct one. Sorry if I have disappointed you.
Thank you all for your continued help. Darren.
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Running rich:
If it was running well before shipment and has sat, the first suspect would be excessive fuel coming into the carb. If the float valve isn't working the bowl will fill up and raw gas will pour out the top of the main jet because the top of the bowl is higher than the tip of the jet. So, clean and inspect the bowl and inlet valve and jet. Don't assume the body of the jet is OK - there could be dirt above it and there should be a screen above it too. Next, check the float condition and level and adjust it. If your adjustment leaves the maximum fill level slightly low, it is better than having it high - you'd only experience a stumble while cornering hard or on a long, full throttle run (not likely on PEI!) and that can be corrected later.
After cleaning the bowl (and possibly the main jet and its tiny hose) test drive. Depending on how it runs and if it still is rich, then consider adjusting the mixture. As I wrote in another thread, this car apparently ran well in Lethbridge at a much higher altitude, and is presumably tuned for that. It may be rich or lean for PEI at sea level.
Once you are satisfied the carb is tuned as good as you can get it, only then begin to check the spark. Begin with checking the points and dwell (or point gap). Then check the timing, remembering to disconnect the vacuum advance and cap the line at the carb and setting the timing to spec at the specified rpm. The timing may have been retarded for altitude to prevent pinging there.
It is unlikely the valve adjustment has gone out since the vendor drove it happily. It certainly wouldn't go far enough out for a significant power loss.
Darren: Have you done anything about providing heat to the intake manifold yet? An icing carb or intake will cause the problems you describe.
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You could have the timing too retarded or the vac advance not working there could be lots of issues with parts out of spec and any amount of carb repairs or tuning is not going to solve that.
Look at it like the gearbox issue. You were thinking along the lines you needed a new gearbox or the linkage was bent and i along with others told you to check the short shift that was installed and if need be change it out for a factory one and now with a simple repair it is shifting fine.
BTW did you ever find out what needle you have currently? if not how did you decide which one to order?
You are wasting your time and money if you do not do the repairs in the correct order or order the correct parts.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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The choke increases the idle speed first and then lowers the jet to enrich the mixture.
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After that, I'd open the carb top, pull out the piston, and look at the ring/jet in the center bottom of the carb. crank the jet up to be flush with the carb casting. It will be obvious when you open it and peek down there. Re assemble it and drive it.
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Drive it.
The correct procedure, when you do not know at what level it will allow the car to run is to adjust it flush, the lower it about 1/8" (3mm), which should allow the engine to start. possibly with some choke. Once you get it warmed up and are able to completely release the choke, you adjust the jet, turning the nut one flat at a time and testing to see if it runs better or worse. It may need a few adjustments just to get it running without choke.
As reported, the choke mechanism pulls the jet downward to richen the mixture. The first part of the choke knob pull lowers the jet without increasing rpm. Beyond a certain point, a cam on the choke mechanism engages an adjustment screw on the throttle lever to open the throttle and increase rpm. When the choke is fully released, the screw should not touch the choke cam at all. If you look closely at the cam, there may be an arrow stamped into it. To adjust the screw properly, you apply enough choke so that the arrow points directly at the screw, then adjust the screw so it just touches the cam. If there is no arrow, rotate the cam so the beginning edge of the cam is past the screw about one diameter of the screw.
Derwood: nevermind starting a pi$$ing match with Bill... you're wasting other peoples' time and patience.
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Yes, I’ve got fresh premium gas in the Mini. I had to cut ( hacksaw ) the old locking cap off because none of my keys fitted it, but it was anouther trouble out of the way. Slowly getting there. Thanks for your help. Darren
PS- our premium gas is pretty poor. 91 octane is the best that is available anywhere on PEI. I always buy regular because I figure it is used the most, thus is likely the freshest. I put cleaner additive in the tank about every second fill up on my daily driver and will do/have done the same with my Mini.
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