slow brake caliper piston
Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
Mar 20, 2018 10:48AM | malsal | |
Mar 20, 2018 10:06AM | h_lankford | |
Mar 20, 2018 09:12AM | Minimike1 | Edited: Mar 20, 2018 09:13AM |
Mar 20, 2018 05:04AM | h_lankford | |
Mar 19, 2018 08:18PM | Minimike1 | Edited: Mar 19, 2018 08:19PM |
Mar 19, 2018 03:44AM | h_lankford | |
Mar 18, 2018 10:25PM | minimans | |
Mar 18, 2018 08:48PM | croc7 | |
Mar 18, 2018 04:31PM | h_lankford | Edited: Mar 18, 2018 04:34PM |
Mar 18, 2018 04:27PM | h_lankford | |
Mar 18, 2018 04:22PM | h_lankford | |
Mar 18, 2018 04:17PM | h_lankford | |
Mar 14, 2018 12:51PM | Dan Moffet | |
Mar 14, 2018 10:07AM | h_lankford | |
Mar 14, 2018 09:04AM | Minimike1 | |
Mar 14, 2018 07:40AM | h_lankford | Edited: Mar 14, 2018 07:50AM |
Mar 14, 2018 05:42AM | Dan Moffet | |
Mar 13, 2018 03:23PM | h_lankford | |
Mar 13, 2018 02:34PM | malsal | |
Mar 13, 2018 02:14PM | h_lankford |
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If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
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I would have noticed a loose wheel stud having taken the wheel off umpteen times
have tried 3 different sets of pads,
with/without rubber backing,
with/without back plate anti-squeal goo,
with/without back plate lubricant (not grease)
have also flipped pads inner to outer side of caliper (but not to other wheel)
I think I have exhaustively excluded pads themselves as the problem
yes swapping rotors would at least give the diagnosis if the sound went to the other side
Harvey
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BTW how could a rotor be not centered, or how could you center it? I think it's only going to sit in one position and if it's off set, it's by design or an error in design.
Hank, also check the inside of the rotor and the face of the hub. Make sure there's no high point on either side that would set off a 'wobble' that could be your noise.
centering the caliper? - actually it can be done , although I have read nothing about that. - My rotor is not on-center exactly and is within .030" of the caliper slot inner side, but the rotor is not touching/ not scored. The other side it just like it. Could it be centered? Yes - I bought some SS washers. Have not installed them . Actually bought two shapes: standard washers and fender washers. The latter would provide a larger/more stable surface area but would need to be trimmed to fit
the caliper mounting bolt would go through : dust shield ear- caliper- new "spacer" SS washer - mounting boss.
The new spacer would move the caliper inwards.
I did remove the caliper and look around. While I was in there, I did try to install the new SS spacer, very fiddly and I did not try very hard as it was not necessary anyway. If doing it for real, I would first glue the SS washer onto the caliper or the mounting boss before attempting to put it all together.
Caliper rebuild kit ordered. I doubt if I have any followup for a month or two.
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BTW how could a rotor be not centered, or how could you center it? I think it's only going to sit in one position and if it's off set, it's by design or an error in design.
Hank, also check the inside of the rotor and the face of the hub. Make sure there's no high point on either side that would set off a 'wobble' that could be your noise.
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definitely front noise, only on braking, and rotational
inside the car with windows up, it sounds or even feels like front wheel well
listening with window down, or by outside observer as I drive by, it sounds like pad noise grinding on rotor, Much lower pitch than I have heard on other cars. Almost palpable and felt through the pedal.
at this point I have eliminated a pad -only problem
It is aggravating to not have a diagnosis first,
but next step is to either replace caliper (2 yr old with SS pistons)
or rotor (6 months old and worked fine until 2 months ago when noise started.
Then again, before I replace anything, I could unbolt the caliper (not replace it), loosen the castle nut, and pull off the rotor assemble to look around incl bearings (even though the noise NOT continuous bearing noise and is pad/rotor noise only on braking.
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Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch
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So I bought a third set of pads - standard Minimania pads
Drove the car one mile and a few mild stops from 30 mph, just enough wear on the pads to prove that both sides are getting pressure from the caliper pistons to the pads ( I already knew that as the car stopped straight from any speed)
These brand new pads are wearing in same rate - see photo : brand new pads with one mile and a few stops
At this point I have no idea what is causing the problem. No the dust shield does not touch. There is no scoring anywhere. The rotor "rings" solid when I tap on it and visually looks fine. No slop in bearings or suspension parts.
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We had discussed chamfering the pads. What I meant was NOT the leading or trailing edges that sweep, but thinking radially, could the lower (or upper) edge of the pads be noisily scraping on the rusty new unswept portion of the rotor?
At first I thought I was on to something. Look at the chipped edge of these pads.
This is the inner (lower) radial side (the one closest to center of the axle)
Yes, they looked chipped, but buffing them off AND the rusty part of the rotor made NO difference.
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I measured the clearance on that off-centered rotor in the Caliper slot. It is .030" . No evidence of scoring. SAme thing on other wheel/ Bearings are tight in/out . I do not think this is an issue.
So what else to do?
I tried 2 pads with no success
EBC pads, two types, ones with and without rubber backing, plain ones with and without anti-noise goo, plain ones with and without brake lubricant (not grease)
So look at the rotor and normal rusting
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the good:
braking is smooth and straight on mild, moderate or panic braking.
(new better -quality rotors (and new pads) last fall solved a warped 2 yr old rotor problem. All was well until recently - noise is new 1-2 months. Rotor swept surfaces are not rusted, car gets driven enough to keep rotors clean)
the bad
very noisy LEFT SIDE ONLY grinding rotor noise, not high pitched squealing, only on braking, any speed, hot or cold ambient temp or brake temp
original post showed what I thought was inner caliper piston ( 2 yr old with SS pistons) not moving normally. I was incorrect. It was pointed out that the rotor was not centered, hence the new (thick) pad pushed the piston all the way in on that side. We wondered if the off-centering was a problem. However, there was no scoring of any surface, and anyway the opposite wheel had the exact same degree of off-centered-ness and makes no noise. Left side photo repeated here :
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I fully understand the centered in the slot concept, it is just that I would expect to see a bright strip mark where any steel meets any steel through hundreds of revolutions. (rusted or not), if that is what it is. The other option is that it is pad on rotor noise.
The snow is a spring in VA snow. Here today, gone tomorrow. I have driven mini once a week over the last 2 months in a variety of temps. Air temp makes no difference. Neither does rotor temp, cold or hot. Noise starts with the first push on the pedal, every time, same even after multiple stops. Noise always disappears immediately with foot off the brake. Very light braking no noise, medium or hard causes noise.
I will get to the bottom of this eventually . Harvey
edit: PS:I bought some SS washers and fender washers in case I find that I want to move the caliper over. Anyone do this? I imagine there needs to be enough surface area of the (two ) washers so the caliper will not be " wiggly." Anyone ever do this?
...
Ottawa now "here today, more tomorrow... may be gone by May". Last week, the roads, parking lots etc. were completely bare and dry enough I wore sneakers outside! Today, just got in from an hour of running the snowblower.
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Light braking = no noise suggests the disks are straight and uncracked. Just pry the pads back to ring it like a bell.
Moderate or heavy braking with noise suggests deformation due to unequal piston pressures. Remedy: fix the caliper. With equal forces on the disk, it should run true and not be pushed sideways.
.
"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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the previous new rotors place 2 yrs ago were fine at first and then developed warp/pulsating (and lugnuts were not overtorqued 40ftlbs)
warp/pulsating was cured by putting in the current higher grade ones ( but not race grade). They are smooth, but it would be ironic ( and my bad luck) if the higher grade ones had hairline cracks.
This will need to be looked at, too. I suppose taking it off the car and ringing it like a bell might detect an otherwise small defect?
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and can also be hard to detect the cracks.
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I fully understand the centered in the slot concept, it is just that I would expect to see a bright strip mark where any steel meets any steel through hundreds of revolutions. (rusted or not), if that is what it is. The other option is that it is pad on rotor noise.
The snow is a spring in VA snow. Here today, gone tomorrow. I have driven mini once a week over the last 2 months in a variety of temps. Air temp makes no difference. Neither does rotor temp, cold or hot. Noise starts with the first push on the pedal, every time, same even after multiple stops. Noise always disappears immediately with foot off the brake. Very light braking no noise, medium or hard causes noise.
I will get to the bottom of this eventually . Harvey
edit: PS:I bought some SS washers and fender washers in case I find that I want to move the caliper over. Anyone do this? I imagine there needs to be enough surface area of the (two ) washers so the caliper will not be " wiggly." Anyone ever do this?
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In contrast, a brake pad is intentionally soft and contains abrasives to maximize grip. The pad is intended to wear to continuously expose fresh abrasive material (which is also why they don't work well when glazed). The abrasive material cuts into the disk face for grip and ends up polishing and wearing the swept surface. If you look closely at the pad contact on the disk, it only touches on the clean part. The only time a pad would touch the unswept area is when the friction material is worn almost completely away to nothing and the steel pad baking plate would get close enough to the disk to touch.
The only time you might consider chamfering a pad is to try and remedy pad chatter, and you would do it only on its leading edge. Chamfering the sides would only reduce pad contact surface and brake efficiency.
I was not thinking of a trial of chamfering the leading or trailing edge of the pads (as they sweep the swept area of the rotor). Instead, I was thinking RADIALLY. If the inner or outer radial edge of the pad was scrubbing along the edge of the rusted unswept area, then perhaps that could cause noise. Of course, the original rotors were older and rusty, so why now?
Now, I have a question: if it is too cold/snowy to work on the car (I understand that part!) then how do you know it is actually still making noise? Maybe the issue is cold parts contracting and reducing tolerances.
.
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If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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In contrast, a brake pad is intentionally soft and contains abrasives to maximize grip. The pad is intended to wear to continuously expose fresh abrasive material (which is also why they don't work well when glazed). The abrasive material cuts into the disk face for grip and ends up polishing and wearing the swept surface. If you look closely at the pad contact on the disk, it only touches on the clean part. The only time a pad would touch the unswept area is when the friction material is worn almost completely away to nothing and the steel pad baking plate would get close enough to the disk to touch.
The only time you might consider chamfering a pad is to try and remedy pad chatter, and you would do it only on its leading edge. Chamfering the sides would only reduce pad contact surface and brake efficiency.
I was not thinking of a trial of chamfering the leading or trailing edge of the pads (as they sweep the swept area of the rotor). Instead, I was thinking RADIALLY. If the inner or outer radial edge of the pad was scrubbing along the edge of the rusted unswept area, then perhaps that could cause noise. Of course, the original rotors were older and rusty, so why now?