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 New brake limiter valve issues

 Created by: thebluepotato
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 Posted: Dec 18, 2017 02:41PM
thebluepotato
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Ok I got it now....because I upgraded to the yellow band master long ago, I stayed with that unit.  In the doc you posted above, it says that the lines will be reversed vs the non-step type of master....and therefore, I have it set up correctly now.

I think the master and valve is working correctly now....I have pressure in the front and will continue to bleed next week a last time.  Will post here once I feel confident it is solved.

Appreciate everyones help!

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 Posted: Dec 18, 2017 01:52PM
 Edited:  Dec 18, 2017 02:06PM
thebluepotato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedduh01
Please double check your archive pics vs your current setup. I swear by my eye you have them reversed Old setup to new setup

Top of master  went should go to the (clutch side) of the valve  (notice the red nuts on the old lines)
bottom of master - Fender /wing side of valve.

  - your NEW setup is opposite.


Then the'es the factory instructions for a NEW GMC277 Master = and they have the two sized nuts on the amster that it doesnt look like your cylnder has

It would make sense you have swapped lines. the Valve is 'working' and reducing the pressuer and flow to the FRONT brakes where it should reduce to the rear.

Goodluck
jedduh01 - lemme recheck this....the doc you posted shows opposite what you are saying. 

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 Posted: Dec 18, 2017 01:30PM
 Edited:  Dec 18, 2017 09:29PM
jedduh01
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Please double check your archive pics vs your current setup. I swear by my eye you have them reversed Old setup to new setup.

Top of master should go to the (clutch side) of the valve  (notice the red nuts on the old lines)
bottom of master - Fender /wing side of valve.

  - your NEW setup is opposite of this.

 
Just for guidance
:Then the factory instructions for a NEW GMC277 Master = and they have the two sized nuts on the NEW master.
It would make sense you have swapped lines. the Valve is 'working' and reducing the pressire and flow to the FRONT brakes where it should reduce to the rear.

Goodluck

Sorry for horrible typing.. on mobile.

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 Posted: Dec 18, 2017 09:47AM
 Edited:  Dec 19, 2017 07:57AM
malsal
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Send me a text or email and i will get them to you my info is listed.

EDIT: Not sure what year your car is but from late 1985 they used a different Master cylinder with a yellow band and replaced the previous ones which yours seems to have. These masters have different sized unions/fittings on the ports. Looking at Haynes book of lies 69 thru 83 page 329 it shows a master plumbed the same as yours.
The two cars i referenced do not have yellow band masters as they are both 1979 and 1982 models so maybe that is where the difference is 

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

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 Posted: Dec 18, 2017 06:05AM
 Edited:  Dec 18, 2017 06:22AM
thebluepotato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Might be Steve but i remember Calver talking about it being a problem on his Estate and this one has all new lines by the looks of it.

EDIT: I just looked at two Mini's with dual circuits and working brakes and both are plumbed opposite to yours. The top line on the master cylinder is going to the port nearest the engine and the bottom line is going to the port closest to the inner fender.
Steve - are you sure?  I also looked and see other pics where plumming is  correct as I have set up.  I also cracked my archive pics (attached here) before I started the restoration and seeing top line going to nearest port to clutch cyl/side of engine....bottom line going to port near wing...Can you post a few referral pics here so I can see what you are seeing?

Saw this blog as well:
//waynesminiprogress.blogspot.com/2015/08/brake-cylinder-and-limiter-valve.html
//waynesminiprogress.blogspot.com/2015/09/new-brake-limiter-valve.html

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 Posted: Dec 16, 2017 01:56PM
 Edited:  Dec 16, 2017 02:57PM
malsal
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Might be Steve but i remember Calver talking about it being a problem on his Estate and this one has all new lines by the looks of it.

EDIT: I just looked at two Mini's with dual circuits and working brakes and both are plumbed opposite to yours. The top line on the master cylinder is going to the port nearest the engine and the bottom line is going to the port closest to the inner fender.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

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 Posted: Dec 16, 2017 08:59AM
Dan Moffet
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Looking at all the photos, I think I see the problem: WAY TOO BLEEDING CLEAN!!!
(Very NICE!)

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

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 Posted: Dec 16, 2017 08:33AM
CooperTune
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Correct me if wrong but aren't they SAE and metric to avoid getting them wrong? Steve (CTR)

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 Posted: Dec 16, 2017 08:23AM
malsal
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Is the PWDA plumbed in correctly ?

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

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 Posted: Dec 16, 2017 07:17AM
CooperTune
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I did some brake work last week and installed a new master single line. We pumped and pumped, opened all bleeds looking for gravity bleed. No luck, so I removed the line and put my finger over the hole and third pump we had fluid at that point. I replaced the line and all was well from there. I don't normally bench bleed due to possible mess. I may rethink that. Steve (CTR)

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 Posted: Dec 15, 2017 01:44PM
1963SV2
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Did you bench bleed the master before installing it?

Obviously  you have a big bubble somewhere (not that that's much help).  

In the past I have found the only solution to be to crack each joint and bleed out any air moving outwards from the connection at the top of the master cylinder.  It works but can be messy ...and all that nice new paint 

Cheers, Ian

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 Posted: Dec 15, 2017 01:35PM
thebluepotato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h_lankford
how do you know it is the PWDA and not the master?
I dont know.  So looking for the right sequence to triage.  Master first for air pocket?

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 Posted: Dec 15, 2017 01:32PM
h_lankford
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how do you know it is the PWDA and not the master?

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 Posted: Dec 15, 2017 01:14PM
thebluepotato
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Image Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Long shot: are your front brake calipers correctly installed with the bleeders in the right position? If I recall correctly, the bleeders should be higher than the hose connections so bubbles will rise and be expelled. (Or maybe I got it backwards... someone will chime in.)
Dan - good idea, but just checked and looks correct

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 Posted: Dec 15, 2017 01:05PM
Dan Moffet
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Long shot: are your front brake calipers correctly installed with the bleeders in the right position? If I recall correctly, the bleeders should be higher than the hose connections so bubbles will rise and be expelled. (Or maybe I got it backwards... someone will chime in.)

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

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 Posted: Dec 15, 2017 12:43PM
 Edited:  Dec 15, 2017 01:01PM
thebluepotato
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Guys - in a quandary here.  Have a new PWDA (FAM7821) for my Mk4 with aft mkt Cooper S brake kit on fronts (dual system front back split).  Standard drums on rear.  All new brake lines, no leaks at connectors.  Have bled the system correctly and rears and pressurizing perfectly, but cannot get the fronts to pressurize at all.  Its only when using the brake pedal that I am getting nothing at front.  All fluid is running clear with no bubbles with speed bleeder.  Using standard DOT4 with new brake master.

Anyone have any ideas on how to triage this a bit more?  Any ideas why not getting pressure to front.

My fear is that the PWDA is defective and not servicable (obviously).

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Basil - 1974 Mini 1000 /// THE BLOG: www.thebluepotato.net/blog
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