Posted: May-14-2008 07:22PM

"One day spent working on the car is like one hour of sex"

Posted: May-13-2008 06:22AM

What do you mean make up my mind?

The Mini will be used exactly as I use my Moke right now. About 500 miles a week on average (whenever the North Dallas weather plays a favorite hand to me and unless my turn to pick up my rug rat from daycare on my commute home) adn we attend most Dallas area car shows (within reasonable distance).

My Moke is no show piece, he has the garage bangs from the Kids bikes, the Texas interesting Bugs in his grill, pock marked front panel from being sand blasted by all the contruction activity here, etc.

I am not looking to recreate and flim flam an S, I am quite comfortable calling the end result a Mini Cooper rally replica.

I just want to know before I pour money and soul into it that it can be registered, legally.

Before posting this thread I went to my local DMV and I was told to bring the finished vehicle and then they'll decide, hence this thread.

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QuickSilversVille


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Posted: May-13-2008 04:41AM

your right in one way it was hard to buy a works mini ,  I picked up the  ex works mini  because of bad paper work, when Gordan Spice was traveling around the world  for a international race tour , they were in the Bahamas  and the car was seized by the local customs because of  improper paper work ,  the car was sold at auction ,a guy from winnipeg bought it and raced it for years , I bought  it in 1990  and started to restore it ,  it was sold in 2001 .     I was in a small island in teh bahamas   on a medical rescue ( I am a medic for the bahamas air sea rescue) and I was walking beside the local customs and there was a  old lotus f1 car less engine sitting in the compound  , wow    went in the next morring and asked what the story, was shipped in  many years ago with wrong paper work  , asked it I could buy it , even offered a bribe , it the bahamas  bribes are a way of life .   but no go , so I will work  to see whe it will be auctioned , or if i can wangle it out some how.   You do not see a very historic car like that on a small island very often.

If you have a real "s"  1969  i do have one parts car left  with vin and ident plate . 

Posted: May-13-2008 03:42AM

I think i could reasonably confidently state that the "Works" NEVER re-vinned a car. Sure they rolled in a new shell and reused an existing registration/body numbers etc but this was perfectly legal in the UK (as has already been mentioned) and no change in identity was involved. And every Works car had a competition history when it passed out of their ownership. While cars were rebuilt to continue competing, no cars were rebuilt AFTER their last event and then sold on to raise revenue. Of course they're not to blame for the shysters that have got in the act since.

I really don't see any difference between re-vinning and identity theft. In every legal jurisdiction I have been in, re-vinning is fraud. Its taking one vehicle and re-labelling it as another for whatever purposes. Its actually a very profitable way of processing stolen cars.

Here in Oz the vehicle ID must be stamped into a permanent part of the vehicle main structure - and tampering with that number is illegal. From the 60s the UK engine number tags were cut off and the numbers re-stamped on the block. The factory used to tie the UK engine plate onto the top rad hose -or somewhere convenient - with a bit of tie wire. When my S had a violent encounter with a giant grasshopper the bonnet slam panel had to be removed for repair. Rather than reweld it I had it bolted in place (a great idea at engine out time). One consequence was that the registration authorities changed the vin. Previously they used the body number because that was spot welded to the panel, now they choose to use the FE number. They would not allow the car number (Ka2S4) as an official ID because that could be removed through use of a screwdriver...

We have to face facts. Cars die just like people.

While you might carry your Father's name and continue his legacy, you don't share or perpetuate his identity.

Cheers, Ian

Posted: May-12-2008 02:46PM

I have owned  2 strange minis   one was gordan  spice's last  works mini   it was a cooper "s"  but had a normal 1275 vin,   I questiond  why and found out some times  the works guys would start with a "s "body and vin it as a normal mini   due to bugets , a normal mini was cheeper to acount for then a  real "s" ,   second was Teds powels  pixie   race car  , the "s"   1963-4  he had shipped from BL as a body of a copper "s"  before the "s" was sold in canada  so it was vin'd as a noraml mini   in the 39,400 range .    however said.  that  even Heritage did not know how to account for the diffrence  , but paper work I had showed  the trail from the factory .   It was typical of the works and customers work supported cars to be wrecked and re bodied  yet keep the same vin or even have normal vin's. 

I only sell vin's of cars I know are no longer around and I bought and destroyed ether on the track or due to rust.    in fact my last vin is now sold  .

Posted: May-12-2008 02:32PM

Would such a car be a "restored" vehicle? Would it be a "re-vin"? What would it be called?

Again, keep in mind, this is a valid VIN paired with a car beyond saving. It is them put with the Heritage certificate to know what the original car's spec would have been. Then the appropriate parts obtained to rebuild the car back to meet the original spec: replacement body of proper vintage (say MK-I), proper spec replacement engine, replacement interior to proper spec, etc.

Posted: May-12-2008 01:48PM

I have a hypothetical for you guys.

I think I saw this on the Travel Channel.  There is a show called No Reservations were a guy named Anthony Bordian goes to other countries and eats there food and introduces you to the culture of that country.

This sounds off topic but read on….

In one episode he goes to China. In one city he visits there is an ancient temple some 1300 years old, the temple has burnt down 3 times and been rebuilt exactly the same way every time in the same place using the same method as it was originally built in.  This temple given the material it is made out of need to be rebuilt every century or so due to the wood and the climate.  They even go as far as harvesting special wood form one forest to rebuild the temple.

So is this the same temple?

A VIN is a VIN, I would say as long as the original does not exist and you are not trying to be deceitful and pass some thing off as some thing it’s not (i.e. a Cooper as an S for profit) there is nothing wrong in a re-vin.

(Insert snide comment here)    

Posted: May-12-2008 12:16PM

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QuickSilversVille


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Posted: May-12-2008 11:58AM

850 PRIDE

Posted: May-12-2008 11:47AM

Don't sell it short.

I would find a body with vin in this crowd.

peter

No more cars left, Westpaminis is now just a memory, Good luck to all those hard working dealers left out there, We can tell you its not easy. We have fully enjoyed meeting all the fine folks we have in the business.

Posted: May-12-2008 09:12AM

do not get me wrong I am not offering to stir up a hornets nest    but in canada  its very difficult to get a vin for a car ,   so its conveinent to buy a vin off a old car ,   I have always tried to make sure  I sell a vin for a "s" to a  real  "s" . in some states  I have sold parts from a "s"  with the  vin  so your buying a parts car ,   but ether way its up to your own feelings , I know some do not like the idea, so no one is forcing you  to buy a vin , some states its not legal  so I have not sold there , I have only one left which is a 69 "s" . I had so many becasue bought cars and  turned them into race cars  which got destroyed  and saved the vins.  

bob

Posted: May-12-2008 08:35AM Edited:  May-12-2008 08:39AM

Thank you Sir.

This is why I return to my good friends on here, many of whom have been there, done that. I indeed contacted vehicle registration office in Collin County with no real luck. I left more confused than with clarity.

Edit: To note I am not looking to flim flam an S. I am merely going to build a rally replica that my Son and I can take to local shows and I can flog on my weekly commute.

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QuickSilversVille


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Posted: May-12-2008 08:18AM

Building a car around a title document to increase it's value and "rarity", is a bit like finding an auctioneers receipt for a Rembrandt and then acquiring a frame and painting a picture to go in it and claiming originality...

Metric is for people who can't do fractions.

Posted: May-12-2008 08:01AM

Opinions I express here do not reflect my wife's.

Posted: May-12-2008 07:28AM

Your best bet may indeed be to hold out for something with full papers.

Posted: May-12-2008 06:34AM

In your esteemed opinion how would this affect the value on future sale?

I like to poke hornets nest but with a long stick so I am looking ahead to the future rammifications of my skinflintness. Maybe I should just continue to hunker down for a shell with papers.

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QuickSilversVille


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Posted: May-12-2008 05:35AM

Want a mini? Visit WWW.WESTPAMINIS.COM Out of business? Maybe not. New plans in action.