ttt

thanks, eh ?

don is away for a couple of days. something about racing or something. you might want to post on tuesday or so

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If it breaks, Improve it !

Don,  would you care to comment on any of the points I made in my last posting  (before this  one at May-09-2008 05:26PM )?  Thanks

Don I would email you but there is x's for you address. if you could can you contact me at 1275gtsport at gmail dot com

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If it breaks, Improve it !

Question from the back of the class here... does the offset perch mean that you don't need to cut the rear wheel wells?

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My Higher Authority is the German Purity Law of 1516 . 

show me what you have I need some for me van

Thanks, Don.  I've always thought a rear bar was a mistake on coned Minis, but it wasn't until I spoke with winning Mini drivers who weren't running them that I really knew I was right.  You can tune your car without bars because you took the time, money and trouble to get your setup just right for your requirements.  Most of the Mini owners owning or wanting coilovers are not able to apply your expertise.  They often pick from what is offered and run the shocks valved as-is with whatever spring rates the vendor thought were a good guess.   Properly valved shocks, especially,  combined with proper spring rates can do a pretty good job of reducing and slowing roll.  You probably already know that the Haney and Braun book, "Inside Racing Technology" does a nice job of explaining the role of shock tuning and valving, including the effects of shocks on roll.

Did you mean a 2.3:1  rebound to bump ratio (meaning more rebound damping than bump)?  In my conversations with Avo, the discussions always involved using more rebound damping than bump.  Of course, this was always in the context of coned suspension.  Avo makes some nice looking coilovers and can easily valve them for Minis, coned, coilover or coil spring, because they do so much work with front-running coned Minis in England.  I run a coned car with Avos which are adjustable on the car and have rod ends at both ends on the front and a rod end on the bottom on the rears.

On another subject, the coil spring folks often end up with shocks that are poorly set up for the spring rates they use and then have too much roll to deal with.  Rather than slapping on sway bars, they'd be better off with properly valved shocks or a well-designed coilover setup like yours.  The critical difference is that you weren't satisfied with an off-the-shelf package, and that you rolled your own.

Maybe your story on this thread will raise the bar for those who are contemplating a coilover conversion.  Thanks for that. 

PS - you mentioned that you chose the Quantums for their light weight.  Were you simply trying to reduce the unsprung weight? 

I am not running sway bars at either end.The rear bar is not necessary if you have the spring rates right.To be honest I never ran them on the mini race cars as it just caused the inside rear wheel to become airborne even sooner. I can tune my car without using a bar. As a point of interest we have not been using the rear bar on our Daytona Prototype.I can look up the bump/rebound ratio but I don't remember the number off the top of my head.As a guess 2.3/1 comes to mind. Don

Don,   I was just curious if you are running any swaybar(s), aka anti-roll bars, with your current setup.  The reason I am asking is that some of the coil spring setups(not to be confused with coilover setups)  require at least a rear bar to provide adequate roll resistance after the cones are removed.  Some folks have even installed front bars.  Do you mind discussing or disclosing the ratio of  rebound to bump damping you think works well in a coilover setup.  I ask this realizing that this is car-specific, but maybe you can make some general comments.  Thanks.

Weird As I mentioned, if you are interested in a set,I have my originals for sale.Pretty much a bolt on deal.Email me if you need any more info. Don

yan6,    take a look at what Don had to say above.  Especially the part about  "I had them set up on a shock dyno and tailored to my mini".

I'm not trying to speak for Don, but I suspect that he went to the trouble and expense of getting his shocks set up and dynoed so the shocks would be well-coordinated with the springs, motion ratio, travel and corner weights on his own Mini(not just any Mini).  This illustrates the need to very carefully and precisely plan and execute a coilover conversion if you really want it to meet your expectations.  

This is no knock on Huddersfield, but it's an unfortunate fact that some coilover "mini made" kits are sometimes, if not most times, not properly engineered and tailored to a Mini's unique requirements.  If such a kit comes with springs, how will you know before you drive it whether or not the springs are the correct stiffness for your own tastes?  How will you know before you drive the car if the springs and damping rates of the shocks are compatible?  How will you know if the travel of the coilovers is correct for your car?

I know that it probably sounds like I'm trying to make rocket science out of a coilover conversion, but if one is to end up with a really enjoyable setup, some research and precision is required. 

Does anyone have experience with the Gaz or Protec's or any other "mini made" kits avaliable from Huddersfield or other mini shops?

wow there is more to it then just ordering a set eh? thanks for the info.

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If it breaks, Improve it !

thanks for the info !!!

i run 175 lb coilovers on the front and 95 ib coilovers on the rear with and without a swaybar

the are 1 7/8 in diameter AFCO with about 40 diferent rates

I like the Quantums because of their weight, or lack off.I had them set up on a shock dyno and tailored to my mini.Although it is a tube frame car the susp.is very similar to the geometry on a stock mini. I have 2inches of bump and one inch of rebound. This may not sound like a lot but its a street car(really!) and I don't intend to jump off things with it. I can give you real time experience in about 4 months. Don

Thanks, Don, for the reply.  Two inch ID springs are mighty skinny.  No wonder there's not a wide variety.  Do they get those springs out of ballpoint pens?  I was asking about progressive springs for the reason I mentioned in my previous post.  I thought they might be useful as a two rate spring.  One for "normal" use and one for crises to avoid pounding the bumpstops too hard.  Other than that, I agree that there would probably be no benefit, for the average driver, in using truly progressive, constantly-changing rate progressives.

What was it about Quantum that caused you to buy theirs?  I know less than nothing about them.  Did you need to get any special valving to address the Mini front suspension's short wheel travel and even shorter shock travel?  Were you able to find a shock length and travel you are happy with?  Thanks !

I'm really happy to see someone knowledgeable take on the Mini coil spring issue and execute it correctly.  I hope others learn from your experience.  Just my opinion, but I believe that too many people are just blindly throwing on the huge coil springs, not coilovers.  Some of these folks then have serious issues with them, including breakage, unseating on droop and untailored shocks.  They also often find out that they need sway bars(anti-roll bars) to keep from scraping the door handles on the pavement.

I am using linear springs. The reason is availability.When you start looking for springs around 175lbs. and 2" dia. there isn't a lot of choice. I ended up with Hypercoil 300's on the front and Faulkner 175 on the rear. I don't think you would feel any sort of difference with progressive. Just my opinion.

In addition to Quantum, Avo is also a shock(damper) worth considering.  They are happy to speak with you and tailor your shocks for you if you can speak their language(spring rate, travel, corner weight,etc.).  I run Avos, but not coilovers on my Mini.  They can also provide you with the output(graphs) from a shock dyno session if you request it(and possibly, but not necessarily) pay extra for it.  Speak with Nigel Killerbey or Conrad for assistance.  Very good people with a great deal of experience tailoring shocks for front-running race Minis.  It's your choice, but I prefer their shocks which have rod ends(heim joints) at the bottom end rather than rubber bushings.  On the front, they can provide shocks with rod ends at both ends of the shock.  Very nice.  Only possible negative would be too much "noise transferance" from wheel to subframe.  Please let us all know how your project turns out.  Good luck !