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 Posted: Sep 18, 2017 03:10PM
Total posts: 7253
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Aug 14, 2002
CA
Now, THAT's what I call a follow-up report. Good work, Mark!

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Sep 18, 2017 03:57AM
Total posts: 3795
Last post: Sep 18, 2017
Member since:Apr 26, 2005
HERE YE HERE YE! ALL HAIL THE O-RING! (or just wait longer) I took the damn lump out AGAIN and pulled the block from the box. Found that the gasket ever so slightly offset from the o ring an MAY have been the issue. In talking to Paul Nelson I checked every step very carefully to be sure I wasn't missing anything. Even though the gasket and O-ring seemed to have full contact and seal, I swapped both out for another new set. I used a super thin layer of Permatex gray on each surface (per Mike Guido) which worked wonders in the past. Not one oil drip. I was super careful to be sure the block sat on the trans perfectly square. I put the end cover on, starter in and turned it over. Nothing at first but after several turns (plugs out this time) I got a dribble then a continual stream of oil from the oil cooler line into my bucket. With Paul's assumed approval the engine went back in. I turned the car over four bursts of 30 seconds with no movement on the gauge but still had faith. I put the plugs in, turned it over, it fired right up and the gauge climbed to 75 psi.

My conclusions in this fiasco of in and out and in and out engine; I packed the pump with grease and it didn't seem to change anything. I took the pressure plunger out, polished it and put it back in but it didn't seem to help. I shortened my oil pump bolts to ensure proper oil pump fitting, but it didn't seem to need it. I inspected the O ring and gasket and think that may have been the issue, but really I think I just needed to get the car running and up to idle speed for the oil to fill the lines, the oil cooler and get back to the engine (the screw on filter was filled already). I was under the impression that the starter would have enough revolution speed to build pressure. I also thought I should see high pressure oil spray from both the oil pressure gauge line and the oil cooler line. It NEVER did; just a modest stream from the oil cooler line.

Things I learned from this event. 1) This forum is STILL the best place for any moderate mechanic to solve problems. 2) Never keep your engine hoisted at the 'optimum removal angle' when fitting it back on to the trans. I was able to push the engine to the correct angle, but I was less accurate. That caused my gasket to slip and potentially my O ring to foul. 3) Just because the gauge doesn't move doesn't mean it won't. I was just scared to hurt the engine. 4) You can tap the Hardy Spicer bolts into the stub axles to make both removal and installation of the engine MUCH easier. 5) snug the clutch slave back bolt before you fully install the engine. 6) reposition the hoist chain after the engine is in to ease final positioning. 7) Don't forget to remove or reinstall your speedo line. What a drag. 8) Lastly, when you hear that 'whine', stop and replace your idle gear bearings.

What I gained from this event. My starter wore out (it was original) but turning the engine over so long was the last straw. On the plus side I found a guy on Craigslist with a complete yet disassembled MG1500 motor and trans. The ad was up for about a month and he had no idea what the parts were; they came with the house he bought. I drove out the night my starter bushings died and got all the parts (including two starters that fit and had the same amount of teeth) for $120. He would have taken my first offer of $100 but I felt bad. The boxes yielded a distributor with electronic ignition (still in box) a new set of wires (in box) and all the pieces to build a MG 1500 motor. I have a 73 Midget that may be getting an upgrade.

Thanks again for all the help. My plunger wasn't stuck, my oil cooler had no visible particles in the tanks (then cleaned), my idler end float is .006" or less and I'm 99% of the way to good. Now to get my brand new clutch disc and diaphragm to fully disengage. Always something.

Mark Looman, Ada Michigan 1967 Austin Cooper S
 Posted: Sep 17, 2017 08:22AM
Total posts: 289
Last post: Sep 17, 2017
Member since:Oct 22, 2004
HeHe nice!

 Posted: Sep 16, 2017 02:24PM
Total posts: 3490
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2011
US
Thanks Mur, knew I should go look at a oiling chart. I need to shut up and go away. Started my day with a three mile parade with the band kids pulling a cooler of water bottles. Followed by the news my 95 year old dad married his care giver. Once he is gone she is fixed for life. Life is full of surprises. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Sep 16, 2017 12:09PM
mur
Total posts: 5665
Last post: Sep 21, 2017
Member since:Nov 12, 1999
The oil pressure relief valve is BEFORE the filter. It is right after the pump. Oil is pumped out of the pump and it goes either up at an angle to the outlet at the top of the block or it goes straight forward to the oprv.

 Posted: Sep 16, 2017 11:08AM
Total posts: 3490
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2011
US
No dog in this one, but if the relief valve is after the filter and the valve is stuck open with a chunk of something I would think there is a good chance the same size chunks have had a chance to find their way to the bearings? I don't even want to know what kind of filter it is running. I have taken apart many old can filters assembled without the spring, wonder what they were doing. I imagine the valve was stuck before the no pressure issue began. Having 4 Cooper S engines of my own, they will will be treated with the respect they should. Peace out. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Sep 16, 2017 06:10AM
Total posts: 9445
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Mar 24, 1999
GB

Don't think so - the relief valve is at the end of the primary oil gallery which is after the filter.

If the filter bypass is stuck open then yes, you could throw crap into the bearings, but you'd also have oil pressure.

Metric is for people who can't do fractions...

 Posted: Sep 16, 2017 03:03AM
Total posts: 3490
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2011
US
Just thinking, if the relief valve is stuck that would indicate fairly large chunks have gotten by the oil filter and into the block. Some of them may well be chewing on that EN 40 B crank. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Sep 15, 2017 09:42PM
mur
Total posts: 5665
Last post: Sep 21, 2017
Member since:Nov 12, 1999
Sorry, I had to convert to metric units and then I had the oil to angst ratio wrong and then my significant figures weren't correct.

Another reliable way to tell that you have no oil pressure when you have no oil pressure gauge is that the engine stops.

 Posted: Sep 15, 2017 07:28PM
Total posts: 5865
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Mar 9, 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by mur
Using the starter to turn an engine over with the oil pressure sending unit removed is a great way to make art. Beautiful patterns representing the angst of Tony/Robster/Specialist's existence will be formed on the wall opposite the car. And the floor. And probably the other walls. There is much angst.
Oh, mur, it's not THAT bad. I don't mean crank for 10 seconds. If the car has been running before, you just need to bump it a couple revolutions and have someone tell you if any oil comes out. It's not like 70psi of oil will come spewing out of it!

 Posted: Sep 15, 2017 05:50PM
mur
Total posts: 5665
Last post: Sep 21, 2017
Member since:Nov 12, 1999
Using the starter to turn an engine over with the oil pressure sending unit removed is a great way to make art. Beautiful patterns representing the angst of Tony/Robster/Specialist's existence will be formed on the wall opposite the car. And the floor. And probably the other walls. There is much angst.

 Posted: Sep 15, 2017 03:59PM
Total posts: 5865
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Mar 9, 1999
easiest thing to do if you have no gauge at all and not a mechanical one is to unthread the electric sender that's in the block and see if oil pours out with force under cranking. It won't tell you how much oil pressure there is, but it'll tell you that there is oil in the galleries.

 Posted: Sep 15, 2017 03:53PM
Total posts: 9445
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Mar 24, 1999
GB
Quote:
Originally Posted by 850mini
Dumb question... if a mini has been sitting for awhile, and you start the motor, how do you know if you have oil pressure without an oil pressure gauge?

Side note: when not getting primed, I have been known to over fill the engine with oil, crank it over awhile without plugs, then do an oil change getting the oil to the correct level. I thought this is easier than trying to fill oil in the banjo hole, while half the oil runs down the side of the block.
Unless you fill the crankcase so full of oil that the pistons are dipping into it, this will do precious little other than ease your conscience.

Metric is for people who can't do fractions...

 Posted: Sep 15, 2017 02:49PM
Total posts: 7253
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Aug 14, 2002
CA
Most, if not all, cars not having an oil pressure gauge do have an oil pressure warning light. The other 'idiot light' (the common name and no reflection on your knowledge!) is the one that indicates insufficient charge being developed by the generator or alternator. During the 1950's and 1960's there were other idiot lights including one for engine temperature.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Sep 15, 2017 02:22PM
Total posts: 34
Last post: Sep 15, 2017
Member since:Dec 18, 2009
Dumb question... if a mini has been sitting for awhile, and you start the motor, how do you know if you have oil pressure without an oil pressure gauge?

Side note: when not getting primed, I have been known to over fill the engine with oil, crank it over awhile without plugs, then do an oil change getting the oil to the correct level. I thought this is easier than trying to fill oil in the banjo hole, while half the oil runs down the side of the block.

 Posted: Sep 14, 2017 12:42PM
Total posts: 9991
Last post: Sep 14, 2017
Member since:Dec 3, 2002
US
Spitz, the concept is that the valve/bullet is jammed. Swarf between the side of the bullet and the hole. Magnets are helpful otherwise.

 Posted: Sep 14, 2017 11:30AM
Total posts: 13276
Last post: Sep 19, 2017
Member since:Jan 22, 2003
CA

Can you just stick a magnetic pickup tool into the hole to retrieve the valve

 

"Everybody should own a MINI at some point, or you are incomplete as a human being" - James May

"WET COOPER", Partsguy1 (Terry Snell of Penticton BC ) - Could you send the money for the unpaid parts and court fees.
Ordered so by a Judge

 

 

 

 Posted: Sep 14, 2017 07:57AM
Total posts: 9991
Last post: Sep 14, 2017
Member since:Dec 3, 2002
US
As mur suggests, I've used a tap to pull out a stuck "bullet" or two. A drill bit might work, too.

 Posted: Sep 14, 2017 07:29AM
Total posts: 3490
Last post: Sep 22, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2011
US
I have a large easy out which I use to remove stubborn relief valves. Twist and pull and out it comes. Thank goodness for oil filters but they can by pass large chunks into places they do greater harm. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Sep 14, 2017 06:59AM
mur
Total posts: 5665
Last post: Sep 21, 2017
Member since:Nov 12, 1999
As suggested, the valve is stuck open. A tap might grab it enough to be able to pull it out. Pushing it all the way in with a hammer and drift might help or it might make it worse. When you say you got a small amount of oil to go in, was that in concert with turning the engine backwards? If it wasn't then all you have done is pour more oil in past the oprv, and not primed the pump.

I expect the oil cooler, which I feel is not needed on a mini used with modern oil, is full of metal particles, and if not removed and either replaced or professionally cleaned, will be the source of the car's next catastrophic failure.

There is some merit to your plan to have this car complete so you can attend to the other cars, however from an economic perspective it will be cheaper in the long run to just ship the drivetrain off to have it competently rebuilt at market rates.

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